General Moment Of Thought

I wouldn't class myself as an experienced flyer, I have watched hundreds of Youtube videos, Tony is class, and this site I have gained vast knowledge from. I enjoy building these kits of all sizes and watching these birds fly I have built.
I spent 30 years as an engineer working to a fine tolerances and in a foundry casting high grades of metals from a lab.
my problem is, and before I say anymore I am not knocking any company, But to me I have a real problem with NEW kits from SAB Goblin the high end of the Heli world promoted by top flyers, I love these kits but they seem to be stepping backwards on quality control. On the heads I had three kits some I had to shim some I didn't, being an engineer if their quality control and speck of metal should be the same from the first to the last one produced if your paying high end price there is no excuse for this. they seem to be moving more from carbon to polymer plastics strengthened with glass fibre and give it a posh name with letters and numbers, instead of leading the field and moving to a Kevlar. which handles heat better on the molecule structure.
Align I now admire stepped up their game and even produced full carbon fuselages and offer so many upgrades at reasonable costs they will soon be knocking the heals of Goblin for two thirds of the price. Goblin it seems are dropping a lot of their kits to produce cheaper made parts, At the end of the day your paying for what should be a top class engineered head and shell that's all you get for your money. I'm not saying these kits are not class, I just think they could be better for your money,
 

Smoggie

Well-Known Member
I have heard of a few quality problems with SAB kits recently, minor things which SAB always sort out quickly, but irritating. I understand that SAB switched to a different manufacturing facility in Vietnam recently so possibly just some small teething troubles. Materials on their high end models (like the Kraken) are as advanced as anything available right now, Titanium shafts, 7075 aerospace alloy, high modulus carbon fibre etc. They do however have their 'Sport' range that uses more plastic and G10 (GRP) laminate to bring price down, but even so SAB are not cheap helis. They have such a strong brand following that they can get away with charging a bit more than most manufacturers.

Align I'd say are pretty much where they have always been, excellent value and good quality if not quite the 'wow factor' of some brands. Plus still a few irritating design weaknesses on some of their helis, like stupidly low tail ratios and motor mounts that cant be adjusted (so you cant change pinions).

There are plenty of other options out there is you are looking for a change.
 
its the engineering and quality of build I like, I cant help it, it was my trade, just think Goblin are expensive for their build quality slipping, I enjoy their ambition and team leadership, but when canopies don't line up and you have to offset reamed holes and have to shim heads from out of the box, that's bad quality control in Asian factories, you should only shim parts from a run in not out of the box. what makes it worse is putting videos on you tube telling you. "you might or might not have to use these shims depending on factory tolerance" this is their words. if a milling machine is set up right it will reproduce the same parts to a hundredth of a thou of an inch.
canopies that they don't produce right again quality control though inconsistent moulding temps. and now they discontinue there carbon models for cheaper moly plastics.
what other models do you recommend Smoggie.
I was looking at getting a Align 500/550xt top combo and dropping the Align full fuselage canopy on it for looks
 

Smoggie

Well-Known Member
Gaui aren't very well stocked in the UK. Align-Trex.co.uk do keep them but most models are out of stock and not much in way of spares.

The Trex 500XT (personally i'd take the belt version) and 550X are a nice helis, quite different in size though, the 550 is a much bigger heli. Great value in 'Super Combo' format. They both suffer from the low tail ratio and fixed motor issues i mentioned earlier. The low ratio tail can be fixed easily on the 550X with parts from the 600XN. Not such an easy fix on the 500 though.

If you want a top quality 500 heli then the Oxy5 is worth a look. Oxy have a great reputation for quality and performance and fantastic manuals too, though they aren't cheap. The Oxy will cost you at least half as much again to build as the Align. Align-Trex, Midland Helis and hely-Shop all stock Oxy.

The XLPower 520 is a very nice heli, sized inbetween the 500X and 550X (an XL 550 stretched version is also availabel). Quality is up with Align though manuals are basic. The helis itself is simple and nothing 'fancy' but it gets all the basics right, flies great and is class leading lightweight and well priced. Again stocked in all the big UK dealers.

Mikado helis have a loyal following and they are light and fly great but if it's quality construction and advanced materials you are looking for then forget it. Mikado are master of 'plastic fantastic' construction, which you either love or hate.

i'll put a plug in for my own little business ScotiaRC.co.uk. I sell the tarot 550 and 600 in the UK which is a brand new design but I'm guessing if you want high end carbon construction perhaps not for you. The Tarot uses a unique integrated plastic frame that doubles as a canopy and encloses all the electronics. The looks dont appeal to all but it is a really nice flying heli, good quality and very keen price. Very cheap to repair if you crash.
 
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How did you get on with your Kraken build, I like the features incased gearbox, wire management, how the canopy and tail boom fit together now and I see the new head system seems better, I think its wrong they realised they have the head system wrong and only offer it as am upgrade for other models, what setup did you use on your kraken if you don't mind me asking are you pleased with it, does it live up to its name
 

Smoggie

Well-Known Member
How did you get on with your Kraken build, I like the features incased gearbox, wire management, how the canopy and tail boom fit together now and I see the new head system seems better, I think its wrong they realised they have the head system wrong and only offer it as am upgrade for other models, what setup did you use on your kraken if you don't mind me asking are you pleased with it, does it live up to its name

The Kraken 700 is a very nice heli to built. SAB but a lot of thought into details like cable management which along with the excellent manuals make the build a real pleasure. Lots of nice little touches show SAB have really thought about every small detail. The head is slightly different to previous Goblins but I wouldn't say that there was anything 'wrong' with previous Goblin 700 heads, they performed great in my experience. The new Kraken head isn't very much different. I'm running BK servos and Kontronik Kosmik 200 ESC and Kontronik Pyro 750 motor, and Spirit2 FBL, which is all very nice stuff.

In flight the Kraken likes quite high headspeed it flies very smoothly 'like it's on rails' and makes my flying look relatively good, it's very smooth and stable in the wind. It has excellent visibility in the air. It does feel a little less agile than some of my other 700s which I put down to it being quite heavy. I dont much like the standard SAB blades, a change of blades can liven it. There are a few of what I consider minor weaknesses in the new design:
  • The FBL mount is prone to vibrations (probably from the straight cut gears in the transmission). SAB have made 4 or 5 different FBL mounts to try to address this, but people still have problems occasionally (my Spirit FBL has never had any issues). I think SAB might ultimately have to move to helical gears, but we shall see.
  • Grease leaks out of the 'sealed' transmission and makes a mess. This reduces and almost stops after a while.
  • The side panels 'pop off' easily in a heavy landing which exposes the battery pack to damage.
The Kraken is a very nice heli but personally I'm not sure I like it better than the Goblin Black Thunder T that I also own, that's not a criticism because the Black Thunder T is an awesome heli.

By the way, SAB have just announced a new Kraken 580 so if looking for a mid size heli you can still have a Kraken. I think they are supposed to be available in June, but these dates often slip.


If you are looking at 700 size helis that brings a many new choices.
 
Considering the modifications they keep making and changes to materials they are steeping backwards for the price you pay, I watched their latest specks of materials they use and I think for what you pay their designs are good but their materials and production control is Piss poor, sorry for my French, I worked with all their materials they are disposable. A goblin should be an Aston martin a good looker and a proud owner, they are becoming a reliant robin with a cult following, the materials they are now using don't go well together flex and expand at different rates, ie parts fall off, leaking seals shouldn't happen, till they design two hi tensile metals low heat expansions Kevlar shell , boom and frame, SAB Will always be expensive disposable heli that puts a smile on their face.
When I was in engineering the whole of the UK showed pride in their work, the best gearing I know now tried and tested from miniature gears to large gears today is shimano. the cut, tolerances, metals they use is years ahead. lasts a life time too, copied by a few but cheaply done. I have deep sea reals that operate high retrieve the workmanship is second to none, the strain on these gears with a 1000lb marlin and the reals are silky smooth year in year out. no leaky gear seals, no parts falling off, no excuses. you don't have to use shims, that's bad machining in a factory, or inconsistent speck of metals used. I think Goblin should pull their socks up, the only thing that puts a goblin in the air is quality components from the electrics from other companies which thank god they don't design. still a nice looking heli shame about the craftmanship
 
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I will wait and see what appears with goblin later this year, quite fancy a 700, I want to upgrade my old DX8 as well, I was set on another spektrum till I read about the new Vbar so I might push the boat out, your only here once if it performs and programs good as it reads it might be the only one I will ever need, when the world returns to normality I will take a look. looks like another trip over seas for some bargains
 

Smoggie

Well-Known Member
The Kraken used more advanced materials than any previous Goblin. It's got 7075 alluminium alloy head (much stronger than the normal 6061 alloy) and the lightweight (yellow) version has titanium shafts to save a few more grams. All the bodywork and frames are carbon fibre.

Like I said the 'Sports' lineup in the Goblin range does use more plastic and regular glassfibre but this was supposed to be a lower cost option, both in terms of purchase price and spares. I don't think it's a bad thing to give people the option of a lower cost alternative, though I'd be the first to point out that no Goblin is genuinely low cost.

A few helis that might get your juices flowing:
Kraken_1.jpg Kraken_2.jpg Strike_Kraken.jpg TDR2 and BTT.jpg
 
both look beautiful helis I cannot fault their designs it just their vast profit margin for cheaper materials, but saying that the prices and deals you get in the states for kits are far greater than we pay over here. I love the kraken see if they make any changes to the newer models, what gets me is when us the testers complain and find the problems they cure it but release the cure as an optional up grade kit, car companies do a recal ?????? your service free enclosed gears shouldn't leak, they advertise that as a maintenance free part never to be touched, if you brought a new car with a leaking gearbox it would be put right, not oh we do an optional upgrade at a cost
 
have you ever built a 3 blade, I see the kraken is also in a 3 blade, did the kraken go together well I like the new boom fitment style to the canopy
 

D.O.G.

Goblin 380 Supporter
Hey Gary. Smoggie mentioned the XL Power 520 and 550. With his help and information I ended up getting the 550. I just finished putting her together the other day. I haven't flown her yet but she's real light IMG_0833.JPG
 

Smoggie

Well-Known Member
both look beautiful helis I cannot fault their designs it just their vast profit margin for cheaper materials,

There is nothing cheap about the Kraken materials, but I'm sure SAB do have healthy margins.

I'm in the UK too. The prices in the USA are no cheaper once you factor in VAT.
For example the yellow version of the Kraken is $1158 in US dealers: SAB Goblin Kraken 700 Electric Helicopter Kit (Yellow/Blue) [SABSG741] | Helicopters
In the UK it's £1,039.98, inclusive of 20% VAT Sab Goblin 700 Kraken Yellow Lighter Scheme SG741

Adjusting for 20% UK VAT and currency conversion, the UK price is converts to $1058... So we are actually getting it significantly cheaper than in the US.
 
looks a good choice ive seen some nice fuselage kits around that would go well with it. Smoggie has built some good helis I like his collection
 
when we was in California last year I paid a lot less than U.S internet advertised price, some corner model shops have some wicked deals. I picked up a losi fiveT £375 cheaper there than here, same as over here deals to be found, my goblin KSE 570 3 blade was cheaper too, quite a lot. if you gauge dollar to pound right
 

Smoggie

Well-Known Member
have you ever built a 3 blade, I see the kraken is also in a 3 blade, did the kraken go together well I like the new boom fitment style to the canopy
I'm not a fan of three blade heads, they look nice but you pay for it in flight time so I stick with the two blade heads. The Kraken builds very well, a very enjoyable build and really well engineered heli overall.
 
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